Dev Meeting 2014-05-18
Mordaan says: Ok, so welcome to the meet the devs
Eonwindd says: next time I will run it, promised XD
Mordaan says: This is OOC, so you can speak “freely”. 🙂
Stanzi says: aha
Mordaan says: I am Mordaan from settings.
Mordaan says: We also have Taya from settings, eonwind and Tuathanach from engine…
Mordaan says: rules I mean
Mordaan says: Eredin from engine
Mordaan says: Tuux from graphics & audio
Tuux says: heeeello
Sanrai’s ear twitches a bit.
Mordaan says: So last week we had a pretty big settings update. I hope all have enjoyed.
Jawir says: Absolutely! 🙂
Mordaan says: Any questions, comments, and so forth, just form a line by the bookstands.
Tarala murmurs “except of the missing plants”
Menille says: Thanks to all the devs for a great update.aand all their hard work.
Sanrai applauds
Mordaan says: Ah yes, there are a couple of missing plant spawns. That should be addressed soon.
Glaciusor says: Aw man… GM flowers not special anymore?
Glaciusor says: (I joke)
Mordaan says: So any questions for the devs? You can go ahead.
Jondalar says: Hi, I would like to ask about the guard access path to the Winch. I have found that since the settings release, that this path has been more than doubled in quest count needed to obtain the winch access. I have also achieved the 200 points for the guard faction which says “Guards would die for me”. While I do not take that literally it does suggest that I have made my mark with the guards. So I find that another factor in believing this access chain may be long enough. Also I find that with the extra quest count, the quest comments to keep one on track have dropped off sharply and i am running out of guards to help. I did not expect that “Helping the GUARDS” required helping each and every one of them in this game. Can you help me understand the need for so greatly extending the effort needed to Get into the Winch area ?
Stanzi says: chain has changed again
Mordaan says: No, you don’t have to help all of them.
Talad says: Hi
Jondalar says: I am down to three guards that I have helped once already
Jondalar says: Sorry three, two i have helped
Mordaan says: There’s like 20 quests in all.
Jondalar says: Last is in the dungeon
Mordaan says: But yeah, I can see where it’d be frustrating to not know which.
Jondalar says: My point being the quest comments could have been better considering the sudden extention to needed quest count
Mordaan says: Ok, I can go through it one more time to see where better to add some key info.
Glaciusor says: That might be a good thing considering winch access is so vital for completing a character (that and mounts)
Jondalar says: Thanks very much, the new players will appreciate it
Kiaerulf says: Hello all. I have done some of the quests wiht changed rewards and noticed that the text hasn’t been changed. For example An Unclear message says you get a sphere glyph as a reward but instead you get another glyph. How do we report this on the bug tracker without the bug repport being a spoiler?
Kiaerulf says: I have noticed kinda the same in another quest as well
Mordaan says: I think you can mark a quest as private.
Mordaan says: Then it won’t be public but the devs will still see it
Eonwindd says: yes a bug as private
Eonwindd says: best way
Kiaerulf says: About the unclear message is it the text or the reward that is wrong?
Mordaan says: We may have duplicates of those because others won’t know it has been reported, but better to have some duplicates than nothing
Mordaan says: I can look into it. Also, if you catch Venalan, he usually fixes those right away (pending release).
Jawir says: Hi, my question isn’t related to the update. When you are on a mount the stamina drains faster than by foot, but since a mount should help to travel without strain shouldn’t be better adding an endurance buff while on mount? Perhaps something making the stamina equal for all characters regarindg their current development? After all the mounts are well trained to run great distances 🙂
Mordaan says: And…we are preparing another quick quest update for all the fixes since the release.
Sanrai says: Good point, Jawir!
Jawir says: *i wanted to say regardless their current development
Eonwindd says: I think to improve the state of the thing we could introduce a different calculation for mounted characters
Eonwindd says: however, I still think it should be related to the mounter char max stamina just like it’s now
Eonwindd says: otherwise it would be pretty exploitable
Jawir says: uhm… why not making equal for everyone while on mount?
Eonwindd says: and monts are not supposed to be ridden endlessly
Glaciusor says: Basically what he’s saying is, why is mount stamina tied to the rider’s stamina?
Eonwindd says: because maxed people would probably complain
Jawir says: Not that way, just a low level character will run as much as a higher level character
Jawir says: I will not 🙂
Kiaerulf says: Mounts can’t be trained (yet)
Glaciusor says: There was a system I saw a while back for training pets… perhaps this could be used. That said, it has to be made not excrutiating….
Eonwindd says: since we’re not going in any way to make the stamina drop slower than the actual rate for maxed people
Eonwindd says: so newer characters would actually have some advantage but more experienced players would be at disadvantage
Eonwindd says: and it’s not exactly like the way it should be imo
Jawir says: How is it calculated stamina drain? Is it proportional to the ratio of weight you are carrying in relation to the maximum weight you can carry?
Eonwindd says: Jawir we usually answer one question to leave other players a chance to ask a question too 🙂
Eonwindd says: but afaik yes
Jawir says: Ok, thanks and sorry! XD
Eonwindd says: you can re-queue Jawir 😉
Jawir says: Ok 🙂
Erisel says: Hello and thanks for good work on last update. Only small question – few quests has been disturbed after update and some are currently still disabled although repaired scripts are ready (Dark Wonderers wants messengers bag etc.) When could we expect server update for this? 🙂
Mordaan says: Very soon
Erisel says: (TM)
Mordaan says: like, as soon as weltall has time to do it. 🙂
Erisel says: Ok 🙂
Mordaan says: There are some important fixes like that one so the plan is to do another mirror as soon as we can
Shkirr says: Why some other dev can’t do it?..
Jondalar says: Hello again. While his may not be a popular suggestion, perhaps mounts should be unusable for Mining, fishing and harvesting actions.
Talad says: I can do it as well
Erisel says: And will you? 🙂
Jondalar says: It just occured to me
Eonwindd says: hi Jondalar, I feel like your suggesting makes sense, for some skills, but imo it’s a very low priority
Eonwindd says: and in my opinion there are more pressing issue for us rules devs to work on
Mordaan says: you do look very weird mining on a drifter. 🙂
Jondalar says: No problem, it just seemed correct some how to change how it is
Jondalar says: Thanks
Eonwindd says: not to mention we’d require an engine change for it
Eonwindd says: you’re welcome
Glaciusor says: Might be worth at least putting a task in flyspray for it, so the idea doesn’t get lost
Eonwindd says: feature request, please
Jondalar says: Ok
Eonwindd says: hi Lealu
Lealu says: Greetings Eonwindd
Lealu says: Just a question if you please
Eonwindd says: you’re welcome 🙂
Lealu says: Will containers be getting updated so that they can be stored with items in them and maybe named?
Sanrai says: Brilliant idea!
Eonwindd says: if I recall correctly there was a prospect working on hte ability to rename containers
Eredin says: An engine prospect, Sangy, recently completed the code for nameable containers. Talad and I have it for review.
Eonwindd says: 🙂
Eonwindd says: very good
Eredin says: The ability to store containers with items in them isn’t currently on the schedule.
Talad says: renamable containers will require a client update
Mordaan says: It’s a long standing request, though.
Eonwindd says: however, iirc, making them storeable with items inside themselves was a too complex things to do at the moment, right Eredin?
Zantatous says: z
Mordaan says: One of these days.. 😛
Glaciusor loves the idea of not having to figure out which sack has the items he is looking for 🙂
Lealu says: Thank you for the information
Eredin says: storing them with items in them would require a substantial change.
Mordaan says: Yes, especially as we get more and more items with new crafting.
Jondalar says: The small and large sacks do help though
Mordaan says: Inventory slots tend to fill up -very- quickly.
Eonwindd says: and imo it’s not worth the effort
Jondalar says: Just need unique icons
Shkirr says: More container types?
Shkirr says: Like with books…
Eonwindd says: hi Zantatous
Zantatous says: Hello Eonwindd .
Zantatous says: Last I heard bow making is not being relased because of art. Is this art is crafting on complete weapon, I have seen alot of bags icons and blue book icons lately.
Jondalar says: Hydlaa leather trainer and Kaiman
Zantatous says: Curosity
Mordaan says: It’s the quests that are not complete.
Tuathanach says: Bow making is awaiting quests
Eonwindd nods
Zantatous says: Thank you.
Mordaan says: They are on the ‘to do’ list. 🙂
Jawir says: I noticed there is a bug with minor earthquake, is that planned to be fixed?
Zantatous says: Buying arrows can get expensive to rank up.
Eonwindd says: Jawir: do you mean the bug that make it impossible to loot secondary targets?
Jawir says: Even the primary for what I can see!
Eonwindd says: eh …
Jawir says: Moreover for a realm 5 spell it doesn’t do much damage
Eonwindd says: point is it’s an area spell and its range is quite big
Tuux says: a earth quake is suposate to stone the area no ?
Jawir says: I don’t know, I can’t see much effects with it…
Mordaan says: It is a -minor- earthquake afterall. 😛
Jawir says: XD
Jawir says: Don’t tell that! XD
Kiaerulf says: Tro to jump into the small bugs pit in the arena and set the effect slider to 100% and cast it. Then watch all of the bugs die
Mordaan says: 🙂
Eonwindd says: about the bugs, it should ne nothing related with current data, so the bug should be investigated engine side
Kiaerulf says: Try*
Eonwindd says: but I need to provide the engine developers a working test case
Jawir says: Anyway, if I target one enemy (isolated) at the end I can’t loot it
Jawir says: I’ll try more and I’ll be more specific, but that is what I have seen so far
Woruell says: That’s what i experienced, too
Glaciusor says: Group looting is actually very difficutl, and is one additional reason AoE spells aren’t often used…
Jawir says: currently I’m not speaking about group looting
Eonwindd says: I know
Jawir says: Anyway, I wanted to point out that, so thanks for the attention 🙂
Eonwindd says: you’re welcome
Glaciusor says: You first if you want
Gonger says: ok
Eonwindd says: hi Glaciusor
Gonger says: Greetings, and thanks for the great work.
Eonwindd says: hi gonger
Gonger says: Speaking of group looting:
Gonger says: Would it not be possible to leave items behind when corpses rott?
Gonger says: And make them disappear if nobody claims them?
Eonwindd says: mhm.. and generating useless items?
Gonger says: That is why they should disappear after a while
Gonger says: Like, if unclaimed for 5 minutes – poof
Eonwindd says: imo we it’s better to avoid producing items nobady want to loot
Eonwindd says: *nobody
Mordaan says: So have loot and monsters disappear on with different timing?
Gonger says: It is just that sometimes the time is a bit short too loot all corpses
Mordaan says: -on
Eredin says: that’s true
Glaciusor says: Hmm… what about corpses without loot vanish faster?
Tuux says: yep the time should depends of the level of the enemy
Tuux says: then can have more time for loot big boos
Tuux says: *boss
Gonger says: Good point, Tuux!
Eonwindd says: I experienced that too but imo, it’s pointless to generate those items to make them disappear soon after
Eredin says: what would it take to make the bodies stay longer in a multiple-kill ?
Eonwindd says: Tuux there is no differenc ein looting a small or big monster
Eredin says: is that tules or engine?
Eredin says: *rules
Eonwindd says: all you have to do is hitting a single shortcut
Glaciusor says: Targetting with shortcuts is unreliable and often skips enemies… I’ve tried that
Tuux says: Eonwindd that not a good thing, it can have a roll for know who loot the boss
Eonwindd says: Eredin: we don’t have support for single or multiple kills
Eonwindd says: who roll for what?
Eredin says: ah. so it would require a significant engine change to even detect that situation.
Eredin says: what about if the dead just hung around slightly longer?
Eonwindd says: however weshould be able to determine how long a corpse stay before disappearing in the loot tables
Tuux says: just need a adaptative time it care about level of the enemy
Mordaan says: maybe it could be slightly randomized? With the minimum time being what it currently is?
Eonwindd says: what for? it’s not that it’s more difficult to loot a big monster than looting a small one
Eonwindd says: once it’s dead of course 😛
Tuux says: add all MAX_ALL_STAT – (STAT / NUM_OF STAT)
Mordaan says: So if you have a pile of monsters, some stay around longer.
Zantatous says: Yes it is with group monster charging now
Mordaan says: It is difficult to loot among a pile. 🙂
Jawir says: or more time before a corpse disappear if it was killed by an AoE spell?!?!
Tuux says: brief a sum of all monster stat
Glaciusor says: The issue tends to become more noticeable with larger kills of smaller enemies… you can’t target them all, hence the item dropping idea.
Zantatous says: Or while getting hit
Eonwindd says: honestly I just set up a shortcut with /target next npc and /loot
Eonwindd says: */loot all
Mordaan says: I’ve had that forever. Some still get missed.
Sanrai says: Not all of us want to loot everything …….
Eonwindd says: and that reduced greatly the chances I miss a loot, even when killing many mobs at once
Lealu says: What about a modifier on the target nextnpc to target only dead ones
Glaciusor says: Targeting in this game skips things is the problem… hence the missed loots. I think either dropping the items in-world or making corpses without loot vanish faster could help
Tay says: I have found when I used shortcuts it will often just switch between a small number of the kills and completely skip over others unless I actually move around them
Eonwindd says: the loot command is configurable
Jawir says: But the targeting seems related to the relative position between you and the corpse
Jawir says: so some position are always skipped
Eonwindd says: Tay, could be if you use /target nearest npc
Tay says: I don’t use nearest
Eonwindd says: using next instead of neares should cycle between all npcs in the char range, even alive one
Tay says: DIdn’t even know that was an option 🙂
Tay says: I always use next and it skips some.
Glaciusor says: Target next does indeed skip some; it’s what I use :/
Mordaan says: yep, been that way always
Eonwindd says: only problem is you may get quite some “you can’t loot X” if he’s still alive 🙂
Jawir says: Eonwind, there are “dead spot” with that shortcut
Eonwindd says: that could be a bug then
Lealu says: What about a modifier on the target nextnpc to target only dead ones
Eredin says: Do we have an open bug report on that? It sounds like engine, so assign it to me and I’ll investigate.
Tuux says: the better is not add complexity to something it should be intuitive and smooth
Mordaan says: ah… /target nextdead npc ? 🙂
Glaciusor says: Easiest way to reproduce this in a test environment, place down 10 rats and cast a sufficient AoE damage over time on them, then try to loot all 10 of them. To make it easier to see which ones get missed, could name them all something differently
Eonwindd says: however I’m not saying we can’t consider rising the dead bodies timeout, I’m just trying to understand how big is really the issue once a shortcut is properly configured
Glaciusor says: Hopefully that test scenario can highlight the issue 🙂
Shkirr says: /loot everything
Tuux says: yes very intuitive Mordaan , the better is /target nextdead npc range X=25 Y=25 Y=25 map=magic_shop
Mordaan says: yeah, I’ve always wished for a “loot everything near you” but there’d be the issue of which kill belongs to which player.
Eonwindd says: /loot everything doesn’t exist as far as I know 😛
Eredin says: “/loot alldead” would resolve the issue but I’m not sure what it would take code-wise.
Tay says: WOuld be a nice solution if it would work
Mordaan says: loot stealing would be an issue
Gonger says: We need “/loot all_i_killed” 🙂
Jawir says: Moreover it will rise issues with the looting range imho
Tay says: Wouldn’t the same rules about whether you could or could not loot it apply though Mordaan?
Eonwindd says: Eredin, imo a /target next npc [dead/alive] would make more sense
Mordaan says: exactly, Gonger. Not sure how complicated that would get.
Eonwindd says: as it could be used for ther purposes other than looting
Eredin says: ok, would someone open a feature request on this? I need it as a memory aide. 🙂
Tuux says: for me a adaptative timer regarding the size of the monster
Glaciusor says: it would certainly need extensive testing, including multiple players to ensure no loot steeling…
Glaciusor says: stealing*
Jawir says: and looting range consistency
Tuux says: looting range can be natural
Eonwindd says: Tuux I still don’t think it’s useful at all 😛
Jawir says: *coherence
Tuux says: but it’s short when it natural
Tuux says: Eonwindd i kno
Shkirr sighs “this can be done like determining all targets around, and apply ordinary /loot to every target”
Eonwindd says: what do you mean with short and natural in the same sentence?
Glaciusor has to wonder if this conversation would better be done in the development deliberation forum 🙂
Tuux says: how loot somthing it ba at 10 meter of distance
Eredin says: ok, so I’m expecting two tickets coming out of this : one to check the current next npc, and one to investigate addition of [dead/alive] filter. Additionally we’re going to look into making the dead wait longer. Does that address the concerns?
Eonwindd says: why? we’re sharing ideas 🙂
Tuux says: with my mind ?
Trevesen says: be much better if you couldnt see other tabs chats
Tuux says: normaly the loot ra,ge should be very close
Tuux says: and ragarding the size of the enemy the desapear corps is more long
Tuux says: that almost natural
Eonwindd says: no Tuux that would really be very boring, from a gameplay point of view
Glaciusor says: If the /target next npc bug can be fixed, and the disappearing time extended slightly, that should address the issue at hand
Tuux says: with chain kill probably
Eonwindd says: Tuux if we would like to make it more “natural” we should make it disappear over the course of game-days
Eredin says: Sorry to rush things, but I need to get going. Is there another question?
Glaciusor says: I do have one of my own, actually
Jawir says: lol who will put his hands in a rotting corpse?!?! XD
Eonwindd says: as bodies decompose over a long period of time
Mordaan says: yes, we are over our time a bit
Tuux says: yep regarding the size of the victime
Eonwindd says: but imo that would really add nothing to the gameplay
Talad says: we are 10 minutes late in fact
Shkirr says: Don’t kill baby ulbernauts…
Tuux says: have game play day is not good thing
Talad says: I think we can close the meeting
Glaciusor says: I’ve noticed that most damage of time spells, except for lava pit, are very underpowered; often about the same or less as other similar spells…
Talad says: and continue discussions on forums
Talad says: so devs can go craft some new magic!
Tuux says: 30 minutes for a dragon is a good thing
Trevesen says: dont forget bowmaking hehe
Eonwindd says: Glaciusor they are surely bigger in overall damage outputs, compared to direct damage spel of the same realm
Talad says: ok, thanks for your participation
Zantatous says: ?stand
Talad says: and enjoy PlaneShift
Eredin says: ok. have to run. goodbye all! I’ll be watching for those tickets!
Talad says: if you know people who can help on development
Jawir says: Bye all!
Glaciusor says: Not really, psychic darts does about the same as psychic blast… but this becomes a larger issue with Blue Way :/
Talad says: tell them to contact us
Talad says: we always need new devs
Eonwindd says: however I think we need to revise some spell power level (not realm)
Zantatous says: Thank you all for coming here and taking time to talk with us.
Trevesen says: good job on update
Talad says: have a good day/evening
Tuux says: bye bye
Jawir says: Bye! 🙂
Menille says: Goodby and thanks again devs
Mordaan says: Thanks for coming!