Dev Meeting 2015-03-08
Talad says: welcome to the “meet the developers” event
Talad says: this event is completely OOC (out of character)
Talad says: you can ask questions to us, or provide comments
Talad says: topics can be development, new features, future elements of the game, …
Talad says: if you want to speak please walk to the stand in front of us
Talad says: and form a queue there if there are more people
Talad says: one question each, then you can requeue as many times as you want
Talad says: today on stage, we have:
Talad says: mordaan and venalan from the setting team
Talad says: Iridia and Zunna from the game master team
Talad says: I’m pinging eonwind from rules to see if he can join
Allena starts a slowclap
Rykia claps with enthusiasm for everyone on stage
Leonideus says: any chance tuanth will be on?
Leonideus says: i have a book but i need it approved
Mordaan says: Questions do tend to be in eonwind’s area most of the time. 😉
Talad says: unlikely as he is not even in our internal chat
Talad summons eonwind
Leonideus says: dang, sorry to speak out of turn
Zunna says: lol
Krugtor says: so I have one question first: is this the place to bring up concepts or ideas for new content?
Eonwindd says: hi
Talad says: Hi Krugtor
Mordaan says: Krugtor: sure
Talad says: yes, surely you can
Mordaan says: it’s about comments, suggestions, feedback.
Mordaan says: and yes, complaints. 🙂
Krugtor says: okay then, back in line
Krugtor says: uh, is anyone else actually in line?
Evirea says: Kaerli.
Talad says: hi Kabitar
Talad says: ops
Talad says: hi kaerli
Leonideus says: i am
Kaerli says: Alright — a hard question for you folks: what subgenre of MMO do you intend PS to be? Are you seeking to create an open, sandboxy world, where players are empowered to build their characters as they desire and create content? Or are you trying to create a pre-programmed themepark, where players simply consume what the devs feed them?
Eonwindd says: I don’t see it as a hard question imo 🙂
Talad says: Eonwindd let’s start to type the answer together, so we will come up with opposite answers! 😉
Eonwindd says: lol I was going to say the same
Talad says: We have discussed the complete sandbox some time ago when dealing with NPCs economy
Talad says: like should NPCs sell anything?
Talad says: or should all items be crafted by players?
Talad says: there were some of us interested in the concept of all items made by players
Talad says: but my fear on that was a very hard/unbalanced game
Talad says: like not finding the low level items, as none is willing to craft them
Kaerli says: I lean towards the latter, by and large; however, it’d require reworking the way loot works, as well as improving the efficiency of markets and perhaps introducing a more robust item recycling mechanism
Talad says: so the decision was to have the NPCs sell nearly all items, but at low quality (quality 50 usually)
Talad says: and have the players be able to craft the higher quality
Talad says: this way you will not run out of basic items for new players, but still have the chance to allow veterans to build cool stuff and sell it
Kaerli says: I wouldn’t be concerned about cheap stuff being unavailable — people still build Tech One gear in EVE 😛
Shkirr nods to Kaerli “Or loot it”
Talad says: but we are surely envisioning some areas built by players
Talad says: mainly houses
Talad says: or villages
Kaerli says: the main problem with new players not being able to find gear is that they have trouble with the social contactmaking needed to find crafters
Kaerli says: I’ll get back in line for the next phase of the discussion, though
Eonwindd says: on the other side from what I see in the MMORPGs PS has its own niche
Shkirr says: Usually crafters find them and give items away… >.>
Eonwindd says: mostly oriented toward RP
Kaerli says: Eonwindd: “oriented towards RP” is orthogonal to the question I ask though
Eonwindd says: but that’s what we are
Kaerli says: I’ll discuss it more in a bit though
Talad says: hi Krugtor
Krugtor says: from what I’ve seen, it seems the PS economy is experiencing extreme inflation, do you have any plans or ideas related to this?
Eonwindd says: Kearli the point is I think we defies the usual “categories” in many ways 🙂
Talad says: Krugtor can you make some examples?
Mordaan says: The change it training has a lot to do with that.
Venalan says: Krugtor PS has been in a state of inflation for ever
Krugtor says: I know the inflation has existed for a while
Venalan says: with a low player base the amount the frewuent players have to spend only goes up
Venalan says: it is something we would like to ‘fix’
Venalan says: but i dont think it will be easy
Eonwindd nods
Krugtor says: i was just wondering whether you were planning on ever trying to do something about
Krugtor says: yes, that’s what I wanted to know
Krugtor says: and no, I don’t imagine it would be easy
Eonwindd says: we’re already planning a ‘fix’
Krugtor says: okay, thanks
Leonideus says: ummm i was wondering if you would consider putting an auto antweight effect on characters riding flying mounts?
Leonideus says: the other day i was riding around, fell from a hill with low hp and died
Kaerli says: you mean Drifters?
Leonideus says: yes
Kaerli says: they don’t leave ground-effect. 😛
Leonideus says: on a “flying” mount it seems inconceivable to die from such
Eonwindd says: actually drifters don’t exactly “fly”
Mordaan says: they’re more hoverers than fliers
Leonideus says: still in theory should break a fall
Mordaan says: but I get where you’re coming from
Eonwindd says: yes they float over the ground
Talad says: but horses will take damage
Talad says: so should be only for fliers?
Talad says: then fliers will have a big advantage
Leonideus says: thats fine especially if the horses are faster
Zunna says: nice idea
Krugtor says: or if the drifters are harder to get
Leonideus says: or pricier
Leonideus says: you pay for each mount
Leonideus says: why not make them reflective of the mounts qualities
Eonwindd says: as of now we’re not planning any difference between the two types
Gonger says: And the rider’s qualities – one day we will have a riding skill, I believe.
Leonideus says: so no chance youd consider then?
Talad says: riding skills can allow attacks, but I guess not base movemvent
Talad says: or at low ranks it can become quite frustrating 🙂
Eonwindd says: we can think about it 🙂
Gonger says: Riding is not so easy 🙂
Eonwindd says: but as of now we have no plans yet
Leonideus says: who said it had too be easy not to die on a floating mount from falling
Shkirr says: Adding a simple AI to the mount could be nice too >.>
Leonideus says: esp less than 3 character height
Eonwindd says: they have and AI
Shkirr says: While mounted 🙂
Eonwindd says: nope 😛 … this means you loose control
Shkirr says: But makes riding skill more interesting
Leonideus has no idea what you mean but whatever
Talad says: having the drifter ask for food or ask for rest… 😉
Shkirr nods
Talad says: hi Kaerli
Kaerli says: Alright — part two of the earlier discussion….
Kaerli says: Why is it that PS embraces stringently limiting the ability of players to translate conflict and competition into the mechanics? IME, robust multi-party system design is a function of *embracing* competition — think of how capitalism succeeded (with some regulation, ofc) while communism fell over flat on its face, practically doomed from the word “go”
Eonwindd says: Kearli — I have a bad news capitalism failed and it’s a total mess XD
Leonideus says: true
Eonwindd says: but we’re a bit off topic here …
Gonger says: communism only failed worse! 🙂
Eonwindd says: not worse, only earlier and in a more “evident” way 😉
Kaerli says: yeah — what I’m saying is that building something to harness competition works out better in practice than building something intending to suppress it and replace it with cooperation at all but the smallest scales
Talad says: I would suggest to have some more specific suggestions on the UI
Kaerli says: eh, this isn’t a UI problem
Kaerli says: this is a *philosophy of game design* problem
Talad says: or function
Kaerli says: and the longer you dance around it, the worse it gets
Talad says: well, bring the phylosophy down to some features and functions
Eonwindd says: maybe I can try to answer Karli’s question
Talad says: if too generic it doesn’t help
Eonwindd says: the fact we’re strongly toward RP oriented implies a “community” effort to build the stories together
Eonwindd says: this may or may not answer your question but like Talad’s said is a bit too wide to answer in a more “focused” way
Venalan says: perhaps just list examples what you think would help on the bug tracker?
Kaerli says: Eonwindd: here’s the thing — when you have half a dozen folks sitting together playing a tabletop RPG, you can be purely cooperative, because your table can easily develop a shared mental image of what they want
Kaerli says: now try doing that with 100 or worse yet 1000 folks who don’t communicate with each other outside of the game and are temporally separated by timezones
Talad says: you can create groups
Talad says: and we may add voice chat in the future
Talad says: but you can already use voice chat if you bring those guys over Skype or similar
Talad says: forming an RP group
Kaerli says: no, that’s not it — I’m talking about the scaling of *assumptions* not just communication here
Talad says: I suggest to move to the next question
Talad says: to give time also to other people
Jilare says: Also, it is great to have players with ideas but it is also great to have people who can help develop those ideas into code, art, quests, etc.
Eonwindd says: Kaerli the settings is there to give a shared mental image, the GM do the same when running events, however the PvP mechanics policies are there for a reason, and it’s related to the PS policy about the topic you’re bringing forth
Eonwindd says: if I understand your question
Eonwindd says: and PvP is just an example
Talad says: Hi Gonger
Gonger says: Greetings to all. About the quest The Gift of Knowledge: After spending considerable amounts of time and money (at one point I had 13 NPC boosts accumulated) I learned from a GM that this quest cannot be solved in the classical sense. I would propose that you CAN solve the quest once by merely visiting all the NPCs, and afterwards it is handled like the gambling quest. Advantages: The quest is not in the quest list, and nobody needs to waste a lot of money.
Venalan says: the point in leaving it open is so you dont have to visit allelia each time you want to get the buffs
Venalan says: you could also just discard it
Gonger says: But then at least there should be some information that the quest is not meant to be solved. I learned it the hard way…
Eonwindd says: maybe a KA can help
Eonwindd says: so you could access the same benefits without having an open quest
Mordaan says: Or an OOC note in the quest note. Or even description.
Gonger says: Or maybe the quest could be reopened at every boost giving NPC?
Venalan says: a KA would hide the option unless you know about it
Eonwindd says: maybe something like the Pterosaur’s quests
Gonger says: KA?
Venalan says: opening at each npc would mean one quest per NPC
Mordaan says: (Knowledge Area)
Gonger says: Aye, Eonwindd!
Zunna says: KA = when you type in nPC window about something
Venalan says: I’ve already adjusted the quest to change the laungage and add a questnote
Gonger says: The quest note I still don’t see, probably because my quest was already open.
Venalan says: you’d see it once the quest is updated
Eonwindd says: maybe the quest could point out how to access the KA, just like some tutorial quest do for other areas of the game
Gonger says: But what Eonwindd says sounds good. Why not do it like the pterosaur “quest” (which is not a real quest, too)?
Iridia says: ptero is a total of what? 5 quests
Venalan says: because then you need one quest per npc and its much easier to just have one with npcs added
Mordaan says: right, when we change quests, we do so on the test server. There must be an update for it to reflect on production.
Eonwindd says: Gonger I see Venalan’s problem here, it may take a single quest of each §NPC
Eonwindd says: *NPC
Gonger says: Ok, I understand that.
Krugtor says: hello all
Eonwindd says: hi Krugtor
Krugtor says: so I have ideas, but I also realize your time working on PS is often strained by bugs and other things
Krugtor says: so where might I submit textures or models so that you might see them?
Mordaan says: Our suggestion would be to join the team as a prospect.
Eonwindd says: Krugtor we’re desperately seeking artists and people able to amke 3D models
Mordaan says: We are in dire need of help in art
Eonwindd says: *make
Mordaan says: 🙂
Talad says: in case you want to become an artist you can contact us on IRC
Krugtor says: not really sure how consistently I could contribute
Mordaan says: yes, the channel #planeshift-prospects
Talad says: there is a guide for it on the main web site, under “chat”
Eonwindd says: I suggest you to come visit us in IRC, freenode, channel #planeshift-prospects
Krugtor says: okay
Krugtor says: I’ll keep it in mind
Eonwindd says: this way we can directly discuss about ideas and all
Eonwindd says: you may also open a new forum topic
Eonwindd says: but in IRC is a more direct way
Talad says: you can also send us an email with your models/images at info@planeshift.it
Krugtor says: I couldn’t find a way to attach files to a forum topic
Talad says: for forums best is to upload the image on some websites, and then link just the image
Talad says: ok, last two questions
Talad says: then we are at the top of the hour
Kaerli says: alright — to continue. right now, we have mechanics for group formation and maintenance (guilds, etal) — what we don’t have are robust mechanics for supporting guild conflicts. Guild warfare and PvP are considered inside jokes basically, because they are considered inaccessible to all but the most-dedicated grinders. Why is it that no attention has been paid to rebalancing combat against progression? It’s borderline silly that someone can play the game for years and be *useless* in PvP simply because they have a life outside the game, yet someone with no life can grind to max level in months
Talad says: maybe PvP at same rank?
Talad says: we could tie some PvP areas to max rank 25, 50 , 100, 150, …
Talad says: even one with max rank 5 🙂
Gova says: The game assesses power level. Perhaps that could be used.
Eonwindd says: it’s used by the AI
Kaerli says: I have a feeling you’re going down the garden path here…
Kaerli says: instead of trying to segregate players by character-skill, I’m thinking that we should look at progression and see how to make it not be so responsive to grinding.
Talad says: will different pvp zone fix that?
Eonwindd says: the combat has the same progression like every other skill in game
Talad says: progression without grinding is a chimera
Talad says: unless the game is has so much variety that every quest/fight is differen
Talad says: t
Eonwindd says: this lead to the usual complain that it’s too hard to train in PS
Talad says: we were thinking to pre-made chars
Talad says: with no progression possible
Talad says: staying at certain level
Talad says: you could make those to RP and fight
Kaerli says: Eonwindd: it was too hard to train in PS because it was *too responsive to grinding* — although premades could be useful in some cases though: RPers often find themselves needing oneoff chars to progress plots
Talad says: but those may expire in 1 month or so
Talad says: while the regular ones will stay forever and have no cap
Eonwindd says: in that case 1 month is too few
Eonwindd says: some RP last longer
Kaerli says: Perhaps a cap on practice points/unit of time could be useful?
Eonwindd says: hi Jilerel
Talad says: we will think about it
Jilerel says: Hello !
Talad says: Hi Jilerel
Jilerel says: First, I disagree with the PVP ranks idea. But that’s not my question.
Leonideus wants it on record that he opposes such a limit
Jilerel says: I’ll start by explaining the problem. Quests like the Pterosaur and Gift of Knowledge.
Jilerel says: Are they really useful to be shown ?
Mordaan says: If we want to be able to use the menus to do the quest, then yes.
Jilerel says: Like, they could still be present, but they are hidden in the quest window.
Mordaan says: Ah, you mean in the active/completed quest list?
Eonwindd says: the point would be exactly to make them more visible
Jilerel says: Well, imagine you make more diaogue with many NPCs. That would make too much quests.
Venalan says: the pterosaur quest use to be in KAs only but then it is very hard to come across or find without being pointed at it
Eonwindd says: the KA system (those used to ask free questions to NPC) allow to access those features without involving the quest UI
Venalan says: they are only a few cases of us using this
Jilerel says: Sure. But as I said, the idea would be : Having the quest system. But remove the quest from the Active/completed list.
Eonwindd says: but like Venalan said, most users may never know about the feature
Venalan says: interesting ides Jilerel
Venalan says: idea
Kaerli says: One last question, related to what Jilerel brought up on the Ptero — you can’t use travel tokens when you are talking to the Ptero keeper directly in NPC chat, why is this?
Eonwindd says: imo I don’t like it
Venalan says: quests but not qesuts
Eonwindd says: it’s a workaround
Mordaan says: There may have to be some coding for that *looks at Jilare*, but yes, could be done, I think.
Jilerel says: Well, I think doing that might be useful for the future.
Eonwindd says: best way would be a UI to access the KA system more transparently from the user pov
Jilare says: The menu that is displayed can be changed to include other things the NPC would respond to like KAs.
Venalan says: I can see a KA ui being really messy if you include everything
Talad says: KAs are really a lot
Iridia says: indeed
Venalan says: some npcs have 100s
Talad says: like hundreds if not thousands
Mordaan says: And there’s lots of KA that can/should still be added.
Jilare says: It wouldn’t have to be everything. We could mark some KA responses as “visible”.
Eonwindd says: I totally agree with Jilare
Zunna says: can’t it be a general Ka menu but more visible ? as in =type your question here
Krugtor says: would a search feature to the hypothetical KA UI be possible?
Venalan says: its all possible
Eonwindd says: some KAs could be assigned to the UI through a DB field
Eonwindd says: a flag or sometihng like that
Talad says: doesn’t become too mechanical then? Just clicking
Jilerel says: A search feature would sure be useful. But the point is to make the user discover the questions.
Eonwindd says: *something
Jilare says: We already have an open question UI entry if you use the NPC bubble menu.
Zunna says: true
Jilerel says: The main problem is : What questions exists, what aren’t ?
Jilerel says: Will the NPC answer if I ask him : Who is XXXX ?
Jilare says: I find the KAs hard to use because I tend to ask things differently than they respond to. 🙂
Jilerel says: I totally agree with Jilare on this point.
Eonwindd says: to be honest me too XD
Zunna says: Maybe a list of key words then : laanx, guard, law, sewer and you choose from it
Kaerli says: One last question, related to what Jilerel brought up on the Ptero — you can’t use travel tokens when you are talking to the Ptero keeper directly in NPC chat, why is this?
Eonwindd says: however I think there are ways to improve the usefulness of the KAs
Venalan says: dosnt work
Venalan says: at least not well
Venalan says: they system with tria or tokens will only function with the menu options as it can be better controled with the syntax logic
Jilare looks at clock, elbows Talad.
Mordaan says: Right, with ptero handlers, there is both KA and quests. The tokens can only be used with the quest UI.
Talad says: we have to wrap up
Talad says: thanks for participating and have fun in game!
Eonwindd says: mhm … the same syntax is available for KA as well
Talad says: it’s made for you! 😉
Venalan says: not all of it Eonwindd
Rykia says: Thank you!
Eonwindd says: everything is Venalan
Eonwindd says: amybe I can help a bit
Venalan says: not its not
Eonwindd says: *maybe
Venalan says: you dont have steps in KA so you cant use that part that allows the choice between tria or token
Jilare says: I have to run. Thanks for the suggestions folks.
Talad says: bye